On a recent trip I managed to snag an external seam on my WM Ultralight, and by the time I noticed it was snagged, the damage was done...thread was broken, baffle loose. My own stupid fault. Anyway, I sent it back for repair, after being quoted a very reasonable rough estimate over the phone. They had it for a few weeks, and when I called to inquire about it, they said, "Oh, we're doing it as a warranty...we think the seam might have been loose and that's why it snagged."

Well, I got it back, and the repair job is virtually undetectable. I actually thought they might have sent me back the wrong bag, so I examined the seam with a magnifier, and could just barely see a few of the old needle holes.

Their bags are expensive, but considering the quality and that kind of customer service, the price is a little easier to take.

If you said customer service was anything but great and stupendous from WM, I'd be outraged, given their price point.

On the other hand, who wants to deal with customer service.

I hear alot about "high" prices on WM bags, but from what I see -- WM bags only cost about $50.00 more than Marmot bags on average. On the other hand, there are no zipper issues and there doesn't seem to be an argument about who makes the better bag. Am I missing something, or is $50.00 more on a $400 bag really a deal breaker?

NitroSteel

Mine's a WM Highlite $260. There are roughly comparable bags out there for about $100.

I like the bag very much, but not so much the price.

“There are roughly comparable bags out there for about $100.”

Hmmm… 35F;16oz; 6x12” pack size. I would like to see that $100 bag.

-Barry

And one more important parameter . . .

Actually performs in the real world rather than on paper.

As long as you're not into splitting goose quills, there are a number of alternatives.

http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___40065

MEC
http://www.mec.ca/Products/product_detai...UID=12215314494



REI's outlet site presently offers a wide range of inexpensive sleeping bags, all of them at least reasonably high quality.

http://www.rei.com/outlet/search?cat=220...5F+to+%2B32F%29

That's the lowest-hanging fruit.

Yeppers. I own three and they are the best lil babies that I have ever own. Awesome construction, and just plain great bags. Not to sound like a pain in the butt but,,,,,, If you don't like the price, buy something else. WM bags are some of the best bags out there. Well that and Feathered Friends

All those bags you listed weigh over 2 pounds, where the WM bag is only one. They aren't comparable.

For $260, and a bag that performs at the temp it's listed at, and will last for years, seems like a deal to me.

Certainly any down bag at all can last for many years.
A pint of water weighs one pound & probably won't break anybody's weight budget.

I like my WM Highlite very much indeed, though I think the superlight shell material is a little too flimsy.

I also have three (2 Mitylites for car camping with my wife, and a Megalite for backpacking.) You can have my WM bag when you pry it from my cold...oh, wait a minute, it's never let me get cold. <img src="/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm a true believer that you get what you pay for. Sure, there are times you can find a deal, but even then compromises are made (fit, size, weight, etc.). I'm guilty of this just like everyone and in all my experience of being a consumer, the best purchases I've made have been those that I've paid full price for because I've gotten what I needed, after doing my intense research.

Western Mountaineering is a great example of getting what you pay for. I've been lucky to see the challenges of being a high-end manufacturer, and I can tell you that price is important to them, but so is quality, usability, durability, performance, etc. These all take an equal roll. In most cases, in the outdoor industry, companies are charging a fair wage for the products based on materials, manufacturing costs, R&D, product development, and hiring the best of their respective field (engineers, material gurus, production wizards, seamstresses/seamers, etc.). For instance, it takes Westcomb Outerwear a whole year to train a seam taper for taping eVent. These folks have to do it literally perfect every time, over and over again. There is very little room for error, especially on a $300-$500 shell (all their taping is done by hand). Westcomb prides itself on extreme quality and the best workmanship. This is not cheap. In fact the total labor cost per jacket is right around $130 (they are better paid than the president of the company)! I'm sure it's no different for Western Mountaineering.

Many justifiably feel how a bag can be $400 when I can purchase a supposedly comparable bag for 1/3 the price? It isn't until that person really does his/her research do they find that the only way to get that quality is to pay for it. Often what happens, like most who've posted here, is that they are much more satisfied and content with that purchase than they would ever be with the $100 bag. Of course it depends on the amount it's being used and in what conditions, but that is something the person has to determine. Often the 'cheap' gear performs so poorly that the person decides he'll never do it again, until next year. Therefore it is even a worse value because it's only used very little.

It should also be said that the most expensive item isn't always the best. You should always be careful and do your research. The internet has made that super easy...

I think it goes something like, "The sweetness of low price goes away far sooner than the bitterness of poor quality (other items that could be added here: wrong fit, too heavy, poor customer service and/or warranty, poor performance, not getting what you need/want, etc.)."

Value, or bang for you buck, is what most of us want. It isn't always based on the cheapest over-the-counter price. This has been one of the best lessons I've learned over the years as a consumer.

I've got mixed feelings about what you're saying.

Western Mountaineering & similar aren't trying to gouge people with high prices. However, WM warns that my particular model, the Highlite, must be treated with extra care in comparison with most other bags, due to especially lightweight construction.

Overkill. Some might feel the Highlite is an example. It's a personal judgment. On a recent camping trip, I used a 1/2-size fleece blanket in lieu of any sleeping bag at all. It worked just fine.

When I said here a while back that I used a $20 Kmart puptent for mucho, mucho months in the field with complete satisfaction, people said I was wrong, lying even, that I couldn't possibly be correct.

Sorry, but that's nuts!!!

Call me a quack, but I've got a very, very old, ($35 cheapy) doddering summer-weight duck down bag that will soon enough, be headed permanently south. Generally, the WM is warmer and lighter, and I reserve it for those occassions when these features become a particular advantage.

I loved my $19.99 Kmart tent which was my first. I upgraded when able of course, but it was simple, easy to set up. It got chucked though, when the dog got sick in it.:(

I think if you find gear that works for you, no matter the price, it's good. Sure I could spend 500 on a GPS unit that gives me weather reports and internet radio, but what's the point.A compass and map work fine. A $15 k-mart tent may not be what everyone desires (my first tent was a sheet of plastic), but if you like it. Soooo What. I'm now a gear head because of this site but my interest are 1. light 2. usable 3.homebuilt or cost effective. The WM bag is probably superior to other bags. But how would you feel if your dog decided to bunch it up and ripped holes in it. Or ate your Garmin Colorado. Some people cant be happy with what they have or have to much to be satisfied.

There will always be exceptions to every rule, but generally speaking, this is the case in my experience.

The unfortunate thing is that too many folks think they can get away with going on a winter backpacking trip or even a summer mountain trip and think their $30 tent will be ok. They end up being soaked, cold, miserable, and therefore never want to go back out. If the person is only using it in very mild conditions once or two times a year, $100 for a tent is overkill. However, if you go into the mountains that I live near (Durango, CO; Uintahs, UT; Tetons, WY; Wind Rivers, WY; etc.), you'd better be prepared and a $100 tent isn't going to cut it unless your really luck out with excellent weather. I could say the same for sleeping bags, packs, pads, and so on.

I will also tell you that us middle-class folk make a far greater investment buying high-end than going with something that may break in a few years. I do consider these investments based on their lifetime warranties and companies who stand by them, quality materials and construction, performance, etc. Though more expensive initially, you will save considerably over the years, IF this type of activity is something that the consumer continues to pursue (they often give up because of their lousy gear). It's the hardest, but most valuable, lesson I try to get across to those I clinic in specialty outdoor gear shops.

My early bp trips got longer, the better the tent I had. Moving off topic here. In a effort to gain confidence in being out without a dry, warm house to seek shelter in, I gained more knowledge/confidence the more I was out in the elements under less than ideal conditions. As someone whose extremities get cold faster than other folks, that was my main concern. Here I was two days away from my transportation. Being able to function if I got in a situation where I would need my fingers to do something, or get hypothermia. Some of my early trip length, depended on the weather. In later years, I only used my Kmart tent when the forecast called for nice weather, saved wear and tear on my SD tent.

Years ago, I wouldn't buy a WM bag because I kept on seeing the word "fragile" in a lot of forums to describe the fabric. I finally bought one and found out the material is somewhat thin and well, fragile. Fast forward to now, the Wife and I own 4 WM bags. After hundreds of nights in them, we had a couple small tears that were easily fixed with fabric tape. We had one major tear that obviously happened after laying it in the backseat with a sharp object (our fault), but still easily repairable. I don't know if the word fragile really describes what the problem is, which is for us, is snagging the material on a sharp or pointy object when the bag was being moved around home or in the car. I would think my tent is the safest place.

They are worth every penny for the small stuff sacks they fit into and the weight savings. Probably pretty good resale value. For those that do tear the material, I would go with the clear fabric tape. It does hold up to washings and is a lot cheaper than insuring & shipping.

Jon

Though suprisingly unclear, it appears from their Web site that WM uses at least several kinds of shell fabrics for their various product lines.

Seems they've maybe removed the caveat about the "extreme lite" series, but it remains good advice.

You know, I've always felt that the top shell to my Ultralite feels more durable than the material on the inside and bottom. Luckily however, I've never had a problem with the shell and in fact, it feels much more durable than my old Mountainsmith Wisp.

I just received my second bag, a Dakota SDL bag that was marked way down at moosejaw.com for whatever reason - it actually cost less than what I paid for my Ultralite 2 years ago. The SDL material feels pretty solid - like a lighter version of goretex paclite.

The fabric used by WM in its "Extreme Lite" product line is (surprise!!) extremely light. That's why the shells aren't particularly durable relative to lots of other bags.

It's not a problem; it's a deliberate design feature that lowers weight, and possibly increases cost.

The other WM product lines use different, heavier shell fabrics.